Our Group

I had said I will not write about Atheism on this blog, but what the hell...


Too many cooks spoil the soup? Or is it the lost ones?

We have a site on each of the following medium: Facebook, Blogger, Youtube and Yahoo. Atheist Nexus is a touch point (think of it as an ad.)

There is also the Atheist Haven account Xianghong and I set up on meetup (now defunct). Despite our announcements that we are shutting down the site, it seems many people still referred to it as a bulletin board for our meetups.

One might have thought that the number of sites we have are sufficient. But, recently quite a few online groups are set up by one of our guys. We have the following on yahoo:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/singapore_atheists
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/friendlyatheists
One other yahoo group (the url eludes me).

It became so confusing that people asked me why there were so many yahoo groups. (Yes, somehow I had to be the one to answer.) I wished I could offer an explanation, but I couldn’t. I wasn’t the one who set up these sites and I didn’t understand the rationale behind it.

Prior to this, all the messages we posted on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/singapore_atheists were inexplicably erased. I can never figure out the reason behind this overkill. We thought we had a good thing going when we started the group, but now the forum is neglected. Three months since its inception, grand total number of postings: ZERO. One could almost cry.

On that accursed night of 27th October 2008, we endured over five hours of online conversation over conspiracy theories about one young punk who was alleged to be “behaving suspiciously”. Our dear friend got XH and I to vote if we are going to remove him as a writer on the blog. To implement such an extreme measure on the lack of concrete evidence for the punk’s defection was astonishing. What was even more shocking was that XH seconded the vote, I was kicked down, and we lost a writer.

Sometime around this time Clara entered the conversation. XH left to appease his wife and the three of us started debating about what was going on. I remember we were trying to talk to one another, but failed quite abjectly. Both Clara and I are very direct people. We believe that if you have a problem with someone, you talk to him or her. Our friend is quite the opposite. Being a Highly Sensitive Person (HSP), and therefore non-confrontational, he refused to talk to our red-carded ex-writer. He believed that lots of things that are unproven are nevertheless true. Apparently being a HSP confers extraordinary powers of observations not available to the rest of us ordinary mortals.

Here lies the problem. How can answers be had if no attempts are made in the spirit of open inquiry? Human beings are inherently biased and perception is often skewed. We made wrong decisions all the time. We need people to remind us we are wrong. However, these facts of life cut no ice with our friend, who thinks in quite diametrically different ways. Around twelve, our young punk came online. Sick of the dead-end our conversation was heading, Clara yanked him into the window and demanded that they trashed things out.

What happened still gives me nightmares. The young punk was desperate to clear his name. He was willing to undertake whatever measures to achieve this, but our HSP friend would not hear of it. To him, giving him a chance to defend himself was akin to abetting his lying. The four of us were going on uselessly, trying to put our points across and I never thought the day would come when I, so often the agitator, had to play mediator in asking people to calm down and speak rationally.

Then the friend went hysterical (at least that was what I felt then, reading his words.) He thought we were putting him “on trial” and “hurting him.” From the start Clara and I had no such intention. We just wanted to get things resolved and hopefully everyone can become friends again. But it wasn’t to be. Surely a simple, old-school man-to-man talk would have accomplished more than what five hours of online typing could not. Why the need to drag things? Anyway, seeing our HSP’s desperate words appeared on my screen disturbed me profoundly. It looked like the final, hasty muttered words of a dying man. We tried to pacify him. I said we are not his ex-church and promised him if they ever tried to send him warning letters and threaten him again, I’ll walk right into that goddamn church with him and give the bastards hell. I don’t know how badly he suffered under that regime, but I meant every word I said and would welcome the chance to prove it.

Towards the end I had to turn in for the night because I had to get up early to work. Clara was with him for an hour. I rang her up and we decided to get Pearl out to discuss this (since she seems to be the most level-headed among us; and frustratingly we couldn’t get our HSP friend to sit down and talk.) Unfortunately, she wasn’t interested in this travesty so we got XH out instead.

We went, we talked, and we ended up lost. Anyway, our HSP guy’s temper seemed to have abated. (He even invited us to Flickr.), so we asked him out to celebrate Clara’s birthday.

He did ask about what we discussed during our little private meetup. I answered him quite succinctly and thought no more of it. After all, the five of us had fun, and surely it was water under the bridge. We talked about many things, including the need to have fewer groups so people won’t get confused. It all seemed fine to me then, but imagine my surprise when I received an email from our guy at 3am on Sunday morning, requesting I send him the transcript that the four of us had. Due to my Marketing report, I only answered him two days later. My MSN doesn’t keep records of conversation. I don’t know if he believes me or not, but maybe not.

It hasn’t escaped my notice that after that night (27/10/2008), I have never seen him online ever since. When we celebrated Pearl’s belated birthday on the same weekend, we couldn’t reach him at all. He did say he had something on, but we worried for him. For the past weeks I didn’t seem to be able to reach him or see him online. I am starting to feel like I’ve done something really bad. I would welcome the chance of talking things over. All these second-guessing are not very healthy.

To complicate matters, in one of the groups, I was demoted from moderator to member, before finally being removed. Xianghong said he was ejected too. While I could understand my “sending off” (for being sharp at a nimrod who happened to be in the group), my friend’s ejection was totally bewildering. He hadn’t done anything! No explanations were given. I think we deserve at least that much.

If even close aides could be cast aside without a thought, I think the rest might one day be kicked out. So the Clara and I decided to take matters into our hands. I added the Lass as a writer and changed the address of our blog from singaporeatheists to singaporeanatheists. (So better to emphasize our heritage.) We set up our own forum http://groups.yahoo.com/group/singaporeanatheists and a corresponding one on Facebook. Clara, XH and I will be the moderators of the yahoo site. Under our administration, nobody will “disappear”, unless for very good reasons.

It doesn’t ameliorate the mess when the friend suddenly unsubscribed from my group. Usually people would just sign up for a group and then became a ghost member. To unsubscribe seems extreme.

I thought I had done something horrendous, given my talent at pissing people off. Then I talked to Pearl and came to understand what was going on.

Our dear friend had taken upon himself to write a report, justifying my dismissal from his group and then sending it to every one of Pearl’s email accounts. It’s ludicrous, considering she wasn’t in the group and therefore uninterested in this ludicrous case. Instead of having my dismissal explained to me directly, I had to listen to the facts pertaining to my case from another person, as the “judge” didn’t deign to talk to me. There is something surreal and undeniably tragic about this sad affair. And later I even found that he had closed up his personal blog. What was that all about? What have we done?

Why the fixation with these blasted online sites?!

An online group is only as good as the commitment and sincerity of those who signed up. 5,000 members may seem impressive, but if nobody bothers to really get to know one another, it all amounts to zilch. At the end of the day, what are you going to do? Anybody with too much free time on his or her hands and an internet connection can sign up themselves up for lots of things, especially when these are free-of-charge.

People whom you have met in the flesh, and talked and done stuff with – these are what really matter. Look at Atheisthaven. Three years on and what have they achieved? Lull periods broken up by the odd ejaculation or heated pseudo-intellectual debates, and complemented by a willingness of its members not to see each other’s faces. Xianghong and I were so sick and tired of all these posturing and this is exactly the reason why we decided to form a real group instead.

I want to take this opportunity to reiterate XH and my Vision for the group:


We are primarily a group for Singaporeans and Singapore-based internationals who are atheists, agnostic, freethinkers and non-religious.

We also seek to provide the newly deconverted with support, as well as educate people who want to find out more about Atheism.

We are a non-profit group.

We encourage our people to mix around freely with each other. This is after all, a social network for Atheists and the non-religious.

We do not advocate violence and discrimination.

We are not political, activist, or support agendas beyond that of Atheism and social networking for the non-religious.

We do not restrict people from doing what they feel that is in their best interests. However, we take exception when such actions disrupt the group or harm its members in any way.

Please adhere to the principles stipulated above.

Finally, seek to clarify any doubts you may have. The moderators are there to assist you.


I cannot stress more vigorously the importance of having effective communication. Why are people seeing shadows where none exist? Are back-talking and stabbings more attractive than old-fashioned face-to-face chat? Why the need to imagine so much and seal yourself in a cocoon?

For the benefit or our misguided friend, nobody is going after you. None of us wants to exploit you or harm you. We are not forming any alliance with any other group, Atheist or otherwise. We operate according to the “manifesto” I included in this post, but should anyone feel some other groups are more congruent to his or her personal views, he or she can feel free to participate there. Even so, we shouldn’t “excommunicate” him or her because in principle and practice, people move between their friends. Nobody belongs to so-and-so exclusively.

We have no rights to stop people from following their heart, nor can we demand absolute obedience from them. If you feel something is wrong, voice it out. Keeping it to yourself and brooding on it is hazardous to your health and ours as well.

Because we give a damn.